Will the Chinese Communist Party begin killing citizens protesting against the government? Chris Chappell, host of ‘China Uncensored,’ tells Glenn it’s important to remember that China has never STOPPED targeting its dissidents — whether it’s Christians, Uyghurs, or human rights activists. But these protests are a bit different, he says, because they’re more widespread. Plus, protesters today aren’t calling for small reforms. They’re calling for the actual removal of the CCP and Xi Jinping. Chappell discusses with Glenn the huge risks today’s protesters are taking and what could come next for the Chinese government…
TranscriptBelow is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Chris Chappell is with us. He's the host of China Uncensored.
Hi, Chris, how are you?
CHRIS: Hi, great. How are you?
GLENN: Very good. I watched your coverage over the last few days, of what's happening in China. And I thought I did a great job of not boring people to death. And giving all of -- giving all of the pertinent facts.
CHRIS: Well, I appreciate that.
GLENN: And putting some humor in it. So I wanted to talk to you, first of all, about your qualifications to talk about this.
Explain how you know so much about China.
CHRIS: Well, I've been China censored for ten years. I've been on the front lines, in the protests in Hong Kong.
I have actually lucked into disputed territory in the China seas. Concentrate contested territory between China and the Philippines. And, yeah. I've talked to many experts on my podcast. So I've been following it closely for many years now.
GLENN: And I'm wondering -- as I'm watching you, I'm like, you're screwing around with China. You ever have any heat from that?
CHRIS: You know honestly, I would say at this point, I get more heat from American social media companies, than I do from (inaudible).
GLENN: Unbelievable. Okay. So let's -- go through this. Yesterday, I explained a little bit about how this all started. But it's changing into something else, and it's not Tiananmen Square.
Explain what's actually happening now.
CHRIS: Well, I think a big difference people should understand, between the Tiananmen protests and what is happening right now, is that the Tiananmen protests, were not calling for the end of the Chinese Communist Party. They were calling for really modest political reforms. And we saw how those protesters were met.
These protests are different, in that there are actually people coming out and saying, that Xi Jinping needs to step down. The Chinese Communist Party itself needs to step down. And that is very unusual.
That kind of direct attack on the Chinese Communist Party itself. Not some policy or some local official. That's a huge escalation.
GLENN: And this isn't like you know any other country.
They know who these people are. And some of them, they're not wearing masks or anything. I mean, that doesn't seem like it's going to end well for those people.
CHRIS: Well, sadly, you know people are asking like, will the -- will there be a bloody crackdown.
And I am seeing that there are some reports of tanks swirling through a city called Suzhou in Jiangsu province. But the thing people need to understand, is that the Chinese Communist Party has never stopped killing people. That's how it maintains its rule.
CHRIS: So these people are -- you know they really are taking their lives into their own hands.
GLENN: And they know it.
CHRIS: I believe so.
It's hard to know for certain.
Because, for instance, with the Tiananmen mask, the Communist Party has spent decades erasing that from people's memory. So many people today in China just never have even heard of it. I remember a few months ago, there was like this Chinese influencer. He promotes makeup.
And on the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square mask. He had like an ice cream tank cake on his show. He had no idea what he was referencing. Because he's never heard of it. But you know he disappeared for a while.
GLENN: Jeez. Okay. So -- so tell me how significant it is, that they are waving the Chinese flag, and singing what now, I think in the early 2000s, they made this into their national anthem. But it's been around for a long time.
But they just codified it, as the national anthem. And they're singing the words, which talk about rise up, people who don't want to be slaves.
CHRIS: Yeah. So, again, I should clarify, that not everyone in these projects is calling for an end of CCP. It definitely has been years of pent-up frustration over China's zero COVID policy, which has reached just absurd levels of totalitarian control.
At a minimum, people have to be constantly tested just to function in the city. Just to function in their daily lives. Then you have cases of you know entire cities being put under lockdown. And people starving in lockdown, because they can't get food. Or what was a big factor in these recent protests was a fire that broke out, in Rushi (phonetic), the capital of Xinjiang where China is persecuting the weaker Muslims. People were basically trapped in their apartments, and fire trucks weren't able to get there. Because they were being blocked.
CHRIS: So the thing about how the Chinese Communist Party represses people.
Because typically, they choose specific groups to target.
So, you know, the Tiananmen protesters, or Uighurs, or Falun Gong practitioners.
The thing with zero COVID though, is that this is essentially made the repression nationwide, including in the middle and upper classes of China society in Shanghai and Beijing. So these are people, who typically have only benefited from the Communist rule. Now they've become victims.
GLENN: Hmm. And how -- how -- how much is actually COVID, and how much is just sheer control of the population? In -- of the government's you know COVID restrictions. How much of it is actually because they think this is the right thing, and how much of it is just control?
CHRIS: Well, the thing about these one-party states is that they can never admit, what they're wrong.
You know for years, since the beginning of COVID, Chinese propaganda has -- has pushed the idea, that the rest of the world handled COVID so badly. You know people are dying in droves there.
But China, China has it figured out. They actually reported zero deaths for -- from April 2020, until a year later. And just transparently, that's not true.
But they've created this -- this narrative of you know the party has it under control. And this is what's necessary to protect China.
And now, that's falling apart. People see the economic damage. The damage to people's livelihood. There was a case last year, where a woman had a miscarriage, because she went to the hospital. But her -- her COVID app, had expired. So she -- she was basically left outside, while she had a miscarriage. And that went viral. That got a lot of people upset.
GLENN: Jeez. So we're talking to Chris chapel from China Uncensored. You can find it on YouTube.
This is the biggest protest since when?
Can you give us any kind of scope on how unusual this is?
CHRIS: So I actually spoke to somebody from an organization called freedom house recently.
And they're doing some interesting things, researching how often there are you know protests, or mass movements, in China expect and they are far more common, than I think a lot of people realize.
CHRIS: Just you know the party is kind of clamping down and censoring a lot of these stories. But these protests are definitely on a scale of beyond what we've seen in a long time. I should say, that a weekend of protests does not make a revolution. It will not topple the Chinese Communist Party.
GLENN: Oh, yeah. The -- the companies that are -- many of them American, like Apple, that have stopped the airdrop from working, which was a way to not be tracked. This is reprehensible. Just reprehensible. How many Americans -- I just read that Joe Biden will not make a statement about it. How many Americans --
CHRIS: That's always --
GLENN: Pardon me?
CHRIS: Silence is always best.
GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.
CHRIS: You don't want to stand up for liberty.
GLENN: People. Yeah.
How many of these companies are actually assisting kind of like IBM did in World War II.
CHRIS: Well, China has a very powerful surveillance censorship apparatus. And that was largely built up, thanks to American --
GLENN: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
CHRIS: Like the firewall. Just the West has been horribly complicit, in so much.
And, yeah. There's just been such a weak response to the fact, the Chinese Communist Party. It's a regime that you ranked as a form of torture.
And the response has just been inadequate, to put it lightly.
GLENN: So what does the world do, if they start slaughtering people?
CHRIS: Well, as I said, they have never stopped slaughtering people.
You know a couple years ago, there was something called the China Tribunal, who was overseen by a guy named Jeffrey Nice, and they looked at the accusation, that China, the Chinese Communist Party is harvesting organs from prisoners of --
CHRIS: Uighurs, Christians.
CHRIS: And, yeah. They've always been killing people.
GLENN: But it seems like when the world is -- it seems like when the world is watching, for instance, the Hong Kong protests, they didn't do anything, until everybody was focused on COVID. And then all those people just disappeared.
So, I mean, we are watching now, but I guess our politicians are sending the wrong message, that we -- we're not going to do anything anyway.
CHRIS: It's not just politicians. It's Wall Street. All these social media. Kind of like Apple. What Apple was doing.
And so this is the sad thing. Like even after the Tiananmen mask, like weeks after it happened. George Bush senior celebrity a secret envoy to tell them. It wouldn't get into the way of US-China relationships. So the Communist Party knows there might be some talk. But you know the West is saddling up and doing anything.
I think what needs to happen. Is I think we need to clearly see and understand that the Chinese Communist Party is our happy. In their own internal speeches, they talk about spreading international communism. Being at war with America. Trying to destroy America.
But we get lost with all these narratives. But if you just understood they're our enemy, then you would handle things like TikTok, which is owned a Chinese company. You would just ban TikTok.
GLENN: Can you do that though, with -- with this president? How deeply in bed with China, he and others -- I mean, on the other side, you've got Mitch McConnell, just as deeply in bed. Well, maybe not as deeply.
But on the same boat. Hang on just a second, Chris. Because I want to ask you what it means for America. In 60 seconds.
Back in just a minute.
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GLENN: We're talking to Chris Chappell. He's the host of China Uncensored.
Chris, one last question. We're looking at a possible railroad strike. We're looking at diesel shortages. We already have shortages going on.
We depend way too much on China. What does this mean, if this continues just as it is?
What is the -- the destruction going to be like, of the global economy?
GLENN: Well, ultimately, the chinese Communist Party's goal is to destroy America as a superpower.
You know we saw how devastating during COVID. When China spent the initial weeks of the outbreak covering it up, to hoard medical supplies. Most of our medical equipment is made in China. We were screwed because we have pushed all of this vital manufacturing to China.
What ultimately happens is, you know China will invade Taiwan. They have -- they have said this repeatedly, that they will do a military invasion of Taiwan. That would completely destroy the semi conductor supply chains. Those are the micro chips that would basically run everything. We are so dependent on Taiwan. If that breaks down, we might go back to the Stone Age.
Okay. Well, you didn't improve my mood much. But I am appreciative.
CHRIS: Yeah. That's why I try to use humor on this show.
GLENN: I know. I know. I really appreciate it. I watched your work on this. And I thought you were spot-on. So thank you so much for keeping your eye on it.
CHRIS: Appreciate it.
GLENN: Yeah. You bet. The name of the podcast is China Uncensored.